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Date:	12/24/99 2:44:45 AM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Friday, December 24 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1572<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Gone for the holidays, and 1yr anniversary <BR>
Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
Re: THUDDD 9 Results/THUDDD 11?<BR>
Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
Re: Drawing Program<BR>
Re: Why use .jpg?<BR>
Re: Drawing Program<BR>
Re: England<BR>
Re: Drawing Program<BR>
Re: England<BR>
_not_ England<BR>
Re: Drawing Program<BR>
OT: FW: moderator: America, as seen by a Canadian<BR>
Re: OT-- North Pole Standoff with the ATF<BR>
RE: FGMP<BR>
RE: Drawing Program<BR>
Re: Geographical idiocy (<BR>
Re: England<BR>
Re: Hiding education :was Geographical idiocy <BR>
Re: England<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1555<BR>
Re: Terran polities<BR>
Re: Closedown...<BR>
Getting to cons<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 22:51:37 -0700<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Gone for the holidays, and 1yr anniversary <BR>
<BR>
> >Take one 25 lb bag charcoal.<BR>
> >Soak with a couple liters LOX.<BR>
> >Drop match on it from a _distance_.<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> NOOOOOOOO!!! This is a Very Bad Plan.<BR>
> <BR>
> Take the charcoal, place a lighted cigarette/taper/whatever on top of it,<BR>
> then pour on the LOX from a remotely-triggered container.<BR>
> <BR>
> If you pre-soak the briquettes with LOX, they explode. One charcoal<BR>
> briquette soaked in LOX has explosive power roughly equivalent to a stick of<BR>
> dynamite.<BR>
> <BR>
> Don't try this at home, kids. I prefer you with all your arms and legs.<BR>
<BR>
There's a site or 3 on the net that has pics of stuff like that.<BR>
<BR>
Those guys are barbeque GODS...<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 22:13:05 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
Black ICE <wombat@premier.net> wrote:<BR>
> Obviously I caught it.  If you recall your Monty Python and the Holy<BR>
> Grail, you'll understand my question....<BR>
<BR>
It has been too long since I have indulged myself.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
___________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 00:25:36 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: THUDDD 9 Results/THUDDD 11?<BR>
<BR>
"Jason T. Barnabas" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Congratulations to Black ICE on being promoted to<BR>
> Assistant Coordinator for THUDDD 11.  :-)<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> Do you accept?<BR>
<BR>
I surely do.<BR>
<BR>
My plans are to accept suggestions for THUDDD 11 for the next two weeks<BR>
(24 Dec 99 - 07 Jan 00).  I will keep the two ISBA lists apprised of<BR>
what proposals are on the table.  Depending on the feedback I receive, I<BR>
will submit the final wording of the proposal to the THUDDD Coordinator<BR>
on 12 Jan 00 (the day the THUDDD 10 results are scheduled to be<BR>
announced).  The THUDDD Coordinator will then be free to publish the<BR>
THUDDD 11 specifications and timeline on the THUDDD Web site as fits his<BR>
schedule.<BR>
<BR>
Are there any problems with this procedure?<BR>
<BR>
BTW, for the long run, we need to decide which ISBA mailing list is<BR>
preferred (ISBA@goldinc.com or ISBA@oasis.leo.com).  Major announcements<BR>
should be made to both lists, and to the TML as well, but discussions of<BR>
future THUDDDs should probably be kept to one of the two ISBA lists. <BR>
(Until we make a decision on which list to use, I'll post any THUDDD 11<BR>
material I receive to both ISBA lists.)<BR>
<BR>
Since this _is_ a major posting, it's crossposted to both ISBA lists,<BR>
and to the TML.  Sorry about subscribers receiving multiple posts, but<BR>
that's the nature of the beast for major announcements.  (That's why I<BR>
think we should settle on one ISBA list or the other.)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 00:28:13 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
"Jason T. Barnabas" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Black ICE <wombat@premier.net> wrote:<BR>
> > Obviously I caught it.  If you recall your Monty Python and the Holy<BR>
> > Grail, you'll understand my question....<BR>
> <BR>
> It has been too long since I have indulged myself.<BR>
<BR>
Nick Bradbeer posted the applicable line earlier this evening....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 22:22:38 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Drawing Program<BR>
<BR>
<eris@pcola.gulf.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Jim, if you can get your drawings into Paint, save them as GIF's, they<BR>
> will look better.  And, yes, I know the legal downside of the GIF format.<BR>
> I'd be using PNG if I could.<BR>
<BR>
Err, I am behind on much of my reading.  Just what is the<BR>
legal downside of the GIF format?<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
___________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 22:42:11 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Why use .jpg?<BR>
<BR>
Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@shell.rt66.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Jason is exactly right.<BR>
><BR>
> Continuous tone images (ie: photographs) should be jpegs. Line art<BR>
> should be gif. In fact, for something like a deckplan it will just<BR>
> about always look better in GIF unless you use minimum compression<BR>
> on your jpeg.<BR>
><BR>
> 3d rendered images can go both ways depending on how complext they<BR>
> are (as they get more photo-real, they need jpeging). There are a<BR>
> few sites online that will also optimize your gifs for you to minimize<BR>
> file size--they are really cool:<BR>
><BR>
> http://www.gifwizard.com/<BR>
><BR>
> that's the only one I have offhand... try it, it's cool!<BR>
<BR>
I have mentioned that I use Paint Shop Pro.  One of the<BR>
things I got with the PSP CD was Animation Shop.  I<BR>
have used it for some beautiful animations, but more<BR>
importantly it can be used to optimize your gifs, even if<BR>
they are only one frame.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
___________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 00:45:40 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Drawing Program<BR>
<BR>
On 12/23/99 at 10:22 PM,  "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
said:<BR>
<BR>
><eris@pcola.gulf.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> Jim, if you can get your drawings into Paint, save them as GIF's, they<BR>
>> will look better.  And, yes, I know the legal downside of the GIF format.<BR>
>> I'd be using PNG if I could.<BR>
<BR>
>Err, I am behind on much of my reading.  Just what is the<BR>
>legal downside of the GIF format?<BR>
<BR>
CompuServe used some compression codes that were owned by, HP I think. <BR>
CompuServe has basically said anyone that wants can use the GIF format,<BR>
but HP is less generous, no that's not fair.  Let's just say they don't<BR>
want their intellectual property to be public domain.<BR>
 <BR>
As I understand it, folks that write programs that implement the GIF<BR>
format need to get a licence.  I don't know if it costs anything, but<BR>
there is some feeling against even a no-cost licence.  The other shoe, so<BR>
to speak, is the rumored (or real) assersion that any GIF'ed file posted<BR>
on the internet must have been produced by a licenced program or it's<BR>
removal can be forced.<BR>
<BR>
I don't think any of this is a concern for non-commerical use, but this<BR>
has been perking along in the background for several years. <BR>
<BR>
PNG is partly an effort to replace GIF with an open system without the<BR>
baggage of GIF.  I don't know a lot about PNG's licencing status, but I<BR>
suspect it's GPL.  Those that like it, seem to like it a lot..like Linux. <BR>
<g> <BR>
<BR>
If all the browsers and paint/drawing programs would support it we could<BR>
move on to it, but...<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 22:54:53 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: England<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
>Subject: Re: England<BR>
...<BR>
>>   Sure, but once the option of military resistance in England proper was <BR>
>> foregone the issue was settled; Ireland could at best hope to secure its<BR>
>> own liberty over a period of years, not to overthrow the new regime.<BR>
><BR>
>I'm not so sure about that.  First, there was resistance in Scotland too<BR>
>(the battle of Killiekrankie, amongst others), plus, the war in Ireland was<BR>
>_big_.  The armies involved were much larger than those involved in the<BR>
>Civil Wars in the 1640s.<BR>
<BR>
  The main battles of the Civil War were smaller (~40-45K vs ~60 for the<BR>
Boyne) but the ECW had multiple campaigns operational simultaneously, and<BR>
more troops pinned down in positional operations.<BR>
<BR>
...<BR>
>Basically, if William had lost at the Boyne, he would have been in serious<BR>
>trouble.  <BR>
<BR>
  English rule in Ireland might have been ended, but not even the most<BR>
disastrous outcome (short of his personal neutralization) could have<BR>
lost him England; in addition to command of the sea (certainly the Irish<BR>
Sea under any foreseeable circumstances) he had a substantial supply of<BR>
revenues, arms, men, and plenty of political capital.<BR>
<BR>
  What he wouldn't have had was a long window of opportunity before the<BR>
Continent required his full attention, thus preventing a prolonged war<BR>
for the (re-)conquest of Ireland.<BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 22:57:37 -0800<BR>
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@aracnet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Drawing Program<BR>
<BR>
>>Err, I am behind on much of my reading.  Just what is the<BR>
>>legal downside of the GIF format?<BR>
><BR>
>CompuServe used some compression codes that were owned by, HP I think.<BR>
>CompuServe has basically said anyone that wants can use the GIF format,<BR>
>but HP is less generous, no that's not fair.  Let's just say they don't<BR>
>want their intellectual property to be public domain.<BR>
<BR>
Actually it's Unisys, not HP.<BR>
<BR>
		Zane<BR>
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |<BR>
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | Linux Enthusiast           |<BR>
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |<BR>
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+<BR>
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |<BR>
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |<BR>
|                 http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/              |<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 23:15:06 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: England<BR>
<BR>
>From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: England<BR>
...<BR>
>>>If that's a typical attitude, it's no wonder someone<BR>
>>>(i.e., the USA) has had to bail your country out of <BR>
>>>two major wars in this century.  <BR>
><BR>
>>  Form a queue, you rebel swine; as usual, the Empire<BR>
>>and Commonwealth had saved the silly buggers before <BR>
>>you guys even woke up from your nap<BR>
><BR>
>Empire and Commonwealth?  Weren't they starting to<BR>
>teach Japanese in the public schools in India and<BR>
>Australia by 1941 so that their children would have<BR>
<BR>
  Whoa! This is about England, not a bunch of South Sea islands! If the<BR>
Brits had really thought of the Japs as a prime threat, they might not<BR>
have failed to renew their turn-of-the-century treaty with them. [ :) ] <BR>
<BR>
>Australia was likewise too far, with too much water<BR>
>and too many American warships in between.  <BR>
<BR>
  The Japs disagreed, volubly, at Java Sea :)  Seriously, the Army had<BR>
real serious concerns about plunking themselves down in Oz; endless<BR>
distance to soak up men and materiel that would have been in very short <BR>
for the sorts of campaigns that an island-continent promised. Admittedly,<BR>
the Near East & Africa were perhaps a sign of how poorly British tech &<BR>
generalship were ready for modern warfare :|<BR>
<BR>
>Colonial forces protected Britain directly in the<BR>
>African and European theaters, but certainly did not<BR>
>pull the mother country's butt out of the fire.  <BR>
<BR>
  You're down to one of the two World Wars now :)<BR>
<BR>
...<BR>
>failing to try to destroy the Royal Navy during the<BR>
>Battle of Britain; failing even to attempt to seize<BR>
>the North Sea; not even attempting to invade Britain<BR>
<BR>
  Scapa Flow is safe from air attack (and subs too! :> ), so #1 is flat<BR>
out impossible. Arguably, so is #2, thanks. #3 would of just been plain<BR>
suicide, although if you posit that _everything_ goes right and the Brits<BR>
lost their nerve once any German landings sort of vaguely consolidated at<BR>
the locations where they would be starved out, then you could have a case<BR>
about as plausible as some of Mr. Turtledove's more desperate mortgage<BR>
paymen^h^h novels.<BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 23:39:00 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: _not_ England<BR>
<BR>
... this<BR>
>is just plain wrong.<BR>
<BR>
  You know, the last time I saw this phrase on the TML it was<BR>
from Kenji, about something like the Sayat dispproval of the non-<BR>
consensual nature of Virus. <sigh>  The level of depraved high <BR>
weirdness on the list just hasn't been the same since the stay<BR>
in Seattle, has it?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 01:36:12 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Drawing Program<BR>
<BR>
On 12/23/99 at 10:57 PM,  "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@aracnet.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>>>Err, I am behind on much of my reading.  Just what is the<BR>
>>>legal downside of the GIF format?<BR>
>><BR>
>>CompuServe used some compression codes that were owned by, HP I think.<BR>
>>CompuServe has basically said anyone that wants can use the GIF format,<BR>
>>but HP is less generous, no that's not fair.  Let's just say they don't<BR>
>>want their intellectual property to be public domain.<BR>
<BR>
>Actually it's Unisys, not HP.<BR>
<BR>
Yes, you're right. I took a look at one of the websites to refresh my<BR>
memory.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 00:01:07 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: OT: FW: moderator: America, as seen by a Canadian<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu><BR>
>Subject: OT: FW: moderator: America, as seen by a Canadian<BR>
...<BR>
>Americans.  I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating<BR>
>over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane.<BR>
<BR>
  Well, the UK led the civilian aircraft industry in the inter-war years,<BR>
although the USG did undercut that by carefully stacking US civ-aviation<BR>
regs so that the inferior domestic products could dominate the market.<BR>
Also, the UK lost many of its foreign markets of all sorts due to the<BR>
necessities of directing all possible output to war use.<BR>
<BR>
  It's commonly argued (and widely accepted) that - intentionally or not -<BR>
post-war repayments of the UK's debts and import/export requirements were<BR>
scheduled to the disadvantage of the UK's position in world markets; the<BR>
question remains as to whether this was a deliberate US policy.<BR>
<BR>
  As the US did everything possible to force its erstwhile allies to dis-<BR>
gorge their colonial empires in the interests of free trade (while at the<BR>
least maintaining if not extending their own informal empire) it would<BR>
hardly seem unreasonable to assume that it was, in fact, deliberate.<BR>
<BR>
...<BR>
>their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded.  They are here on our<BR>
>streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are<BR>
>getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.<BR>
<BR>
  FWIW, it seems unlikely that the war in Vietnam could have been fought<BR>
against the sort of backlash that would have resulted if the sons of the<BR>
politically active classes had been the ones being conscripted. Hmm,<BR>
conscription if necessary, but not necessarily conscription - maybe some<BR>
of the Yanks learned something from King!?<BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 03:11:02 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: OT-- North Pole Standoff with the ATF<BR>
<BR>
BRILLIANT!!! Where did you get this, or did you write it yourself? <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 16:10:01 -0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: RE: FGMP<BR>
<BR>
Using the putting the heat back into plasma the 4.3cm TL12 Plasma Gun does<BR>
23D6 of damage + blunt trauma, has a penetration rating of<BR>
Short/Medium-Long-Extreme of 1-2-10 and a Penetration Value of 23-23-12-2,<BR>
effectively meaning that at Short and Medium range the plasma could<BR>
penetrate AV23 and run out of er steam at that point, though still doing 23<BR>
points of blunt trauma<BR>
<BR>
This would make a colander of TNE battle dress at short/medium range, and<BR>
watch out for critical hits which double damage on PCs and auto-kill NPCs<BR>
<BR>
Antony Farrell<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 16:10:03 -0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Drawing Program<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Michel<BR>
> Vaillancourt<BR>
> Sent: Wednesday, 22 December 1999 7:23 PM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Drawing Program<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> At 10:12 PM 12/22/99 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
> >Hi all.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Can anyone recommend a shareware/freeware prog for drawing<BR>
> >deckplans, planetary maps and that sort of thing?  It doesn't have to be<BR>
> >anything fancy...<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Thanks,<BR>
> >Charles C.<BR>
> ><BR>
>         _Campagin Cartographer 2_ and _City Designer 2_ by ProFantasy<BR>
> Software  ( "http://www.profantasy.com").  Check out my websites<BR>
> (see URL's<BR>
> below) for examples of neat things (including deckplans) that you can do<BR>
> with it.  *GREAT* software, better support.<BR>
><BR>
>         --Michel<BR>
>         ( CC2/ CD2 Junkie )<BR>
><BR>
What do you use to convert the Campaign Cartographer files from their<BR>
proprietary format to .gif or .jpg. I use Campaign Cartographer 2 Version<BR>
5.9<BR>
<BR>
Antony Farrell<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 03:15:10 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Geographical idiocy (<BR>
<BR>
Maps are GOOD!!! (and Traveller stuff, and computers, and Sam Adams Beer, and <BR>
Bailey's Irish Creme, and Guinness Stout, and guns, etc....:-) )<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 17:11:37 +0000<BR>
From: Martin Hardgrave <martin@deira.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: England<BR>
<BR>
In message <18694FCA.4563@pacbell.net>, "Glenn M. Goffin"<BR>
<gmgoffin@pacbell.net> writes<BR>
>> That's not an invasion of Britain. That's an invasion of a very small part<BR>
>> of the country. (Annexation? I never was much good in history...)<BR>
><BR>
>If that's a typical attitude, it's no wonder someone (i.e., the USA) has<BR>
>had to bail your country out of two major wars in this century.  You<BR>
>know, I'm going to chop off your toe -- it's not an attack to you, just<BR>
>to a very small part of you.<BR>
<BR>
The Channel Islands are a part of Britain in the same way that Guam is a<BR>
state in the United States of America.<BR>
- -- <BR>
Martin Hardgrave<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 03:25:34 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Hiding education :was Geographical idiocy <BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 12/23/99 6:12:25 PM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
redroach@flex.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< He was a bit shocked when I informed him that it would never happen while  <BR>
I<BR>
 owned a gun. >><BR>
<BR>
And you still have a job? (I DO understand your sentiments though...:-))<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 01:11:17 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: England<BR>
<BR>
Martin Hardgrave <martin@deira.demon.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
> In message <18694FCA.4563@pacbell.net>, "Glenn M. Goffin"<BR>
> <gmgoffin@pacbell.net> writes<BR>
> >> That's not an invasion of Britain. That's an invasion of a very small<BR>
part<BR>
> >> of the country. (Annexation? I never was much good in history...)<BR>
> ><BR>
> >If that's a typical attitude, it's no wonder someone (i.e., the USA) has<BR>
> >had to bail your country out of two major wars in this century.  You<BR>
> >know, I'm going to chop off your toe -- it's not an attack to you, just<BR>
> >to a very small part of you.<BR>
><BR>
> The Channel Islands are a part of Britain in the same way that Guam is a<BR>
> state in the United States of America.<BR>
<BR>
Needless to say, Guam is not one of the united States, it<BR>
is a territory.  Are you saying that the Channel Islands are<BR>
a British territory or should I say a territory of the United<BR>
Kingdom?<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
___________________________________________<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 01:44:41 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1555<BR>
<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Nah, nah-nah! Nah Nah!  See, I told you so. We are *all* heretics! ;-p<BR>
><BR>
> Eris<BR>
<BR>
Hey does this means We win......  Well at least they finally figured out they<BR>
lost?<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
The theme of the whole thing is clear. We have to be careful with wisdom. We<BR>
have to make certain we're ready for it when it comes knocking on our door.<BR>
Knowledge isn't always a blessing;<BR>
    sometimes, it's damnation.<BR>
Play Dirty: Let's All Go to the Movies!, by John Wick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 10:47:14 +0100 (MET)<BR>
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk><BR>
Subject: Re: Terran polities<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
<BR>
>>There is some continuity at least. The government of 1109 is bound to some<BR>
>>extent by a legal decision made by the "World Court" a few years after<BR>
>>-2030. It appears that the 3 millenia between -2000 and 1100 are a little<BR>
>>different from the 3 millenia between -1000 BC and 2000 AD. Perhaps analogies<BR>
>>drawn between the two periods are not altogether sound.<BR>
> <BR>
>And current law is traceable to Roman law, maybe even to Hammurabi. <BR>
 <BR>
Come now, Leonard, I said that the Terran goverment of 1109 was BOUND by a<BR>
decision made by the "World Court" (whatever that may have been) a few years<BR>
after -2030. How many decisions made by the Roman Senate is legally binding<BR>
on the US government today? I think a little more continuity than between<BR>
the codes of Hammurabi and the laws of the US is implied, don't you?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
      Hans Rancke<BR>
University of Copenhagen<BR>
     rancke@diku.dk<BR>
- ------------<BR>
        'There was a man,'  remarked Captain Eliot, 'who was sentenced<BR>
    to death for stealing a horse from a common. He said to the judge,<BR>
    that  he  thought it hard to be hanged for stealing a horse from a<BR>
    common  and  the  judge  answered,  "You  are not to be hanged for<BR>
    stealing  a  horse  from  a common,  but that others may not steal<BR>
    horses from commons." '<BR>
        'And do you find,' asked Stephen, 'that in fact horses are not<BR>
    daily stolen from commons? You do not!'<BR>
<BR>
                        --- "The Mauritius Command" by Patrick O'Brian<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 01:50:15 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Closedown...<BR>
<BR>
The Roc wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> ----- Original Message -----<BR>
> From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
><BR>
> > <XMAIL> With immediate effect, this station is shutting down for<BR>
> > annual overindulgence in alcohol, rich food and family fun.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Have a great Christmas and New Year period, no matter what your<BR>
> > beliefs. </XMAIL><BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
> It is Christmas eve here in Australia and I to shall be shutting down about<BR>
> 3-4 P.M. for the weekend fo my family's "annual overindulgence in alcohol,<BR>
> rich food and family fun."<BR>
><BR>
> Tale care and have a good one all!  May your festivities be festive, be<BR>
> well, and Merry Christmas!<BR>
><BR>
> -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
 Hey wear some sunblock....<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
The theme of the whole thing is clear. We have to be careful with wisdom. We<BR>
have to make certain we're ready for it when it comes knocking on our door.<BR>
Knowledge isn't always a blessing;<BR>
    sometimes, it's damnation.<BR>
Play Dirty: Let's All Go to the Movies!, by John Wick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 01:28:16 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Getting to cons<BR>
<BR>
>Tying this thread to "the US is really big" thread...it's tough for us to<BR>
>all get together.  Those that are west have a problem getting east and<BR>
>vise versa.  Heck those of us southeast have a problem getting to the<BR>
>upper midwest.<BR>
><BR>
Just to add my Cr0.02, Some US types can't even get to anywhere else in the<BR>
US without MAJOR air fares... Alaska and Hawaii. For all intents, we may as<BR>
well be  a foreign country (We pay the international flights tax on flights<BR>
to the lower 48, last I checked). Heck, in Alaska, it's rough to get to<BR>
cons IN STATE. Fairbanks is a 7 hour drive at highway speed limits, or a<BR>
$250 flight, from Anchorage; To/From Juneau is around $450 for anchorage,<BR>
about $100 more for fairbanks. Going to seattle can get as low as $295 one<BR>
way, sometimmes specials put it at about $350 round trip... but, for<BR>
example, Baycon means one of the following options:<BR>
1) Fly to seattle ($400 RT), and greyhound to the Bay Area. 3 hour flight,<BR>
1.5 day greyhound trip ($70 each way, IIRC). Total travel expenses:$540,<BR>
plus 4 days, plus bus or cab to/from greyhound terminal and airport.<BR>
2) Fly to SF (IIRC, SD is close to SF), for about $900 RT.<BR>
3) Military & Dependants MIGHT be able to catch a hop, and reduce travel to<BR>
$30 per person. But, you might also get stuck somewhere in between.<BR>
4) Military Persons (and dependants) can go through SATO, and get tickets<BR>
for about 2/3rds cost.<BR>
5) Drive the AlCan Highway. 3-5 days travel to seattle. Food, Fuel,<BR>
Lodgings all the way down. Plus, often, a new tire.<BR>
<BR>
It is really difficult to get affordable airfares out of anchorage. And<BR>
remember, those are just TRAVEL costs, not including accomodations,<BR>
admissions, food, etc.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1572<BR>
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